A Conversation With Pastor Gary of the Church of Christ

If you were driving around Westlake today, there is a good chance you saw the cross. After being out for a little over an hour and a half earlier, I was out at the intersection of Detroit and Dover Center from 2:25 to 5:15. There is a wind advisory tomorrow and my cross doesn't fair well in high winds, so I wanted to go out twice today, plus winter is coming and I'm not sure how long I will be able to take it in the cold, so I want to take advantage of the nice weather while I have it.

As I made my way out, I gave a gospel tract to two of the workers at my apartment complex. One asked to see my sign and he told me to keep up the good work. I was hesitating on giving them tracts, but I'm glad I did. I need to get back in the habit of giving everyone tracts.

I saw a high school student on his way home from school that I had met previously when I was at this intersection. He offered me some more encouragement and we talked for a few minutes. A young lady came by a little later and I offered her a gospel tract and it turns it was his sister.

A woman driving by asked what my sign meant, and I told her to go to NEEDGOD.COM. I put the address at the bottom of my cross, but I'm not sure how far it is visible from. She asked me again what the address was, and I told her, and she wrote it down. It is so great to have this resource available to give to people.

Around 3:20, Pastor Gary pulled up. He inquired about the cross and we soon got into a conversation. He started talking about baptism and I had a feeling this was going to be like a conversation I had a few weeks ago with someone else.

Gary told me he was pastor of a church in Kansas City and recently came to Ohio. My feeling was correct- Gray belongs to the Church of Christ. I had made a decision not to get into religious debates like the one that followed, but I did.

My conversation with Kevin a few weeks ago revolved around there being 5 things necessary and I couldn't seem to figure out all of them. I kept coming up one short. Gary gave me a card that answers this. It says, "Jesus taught, and the apostles, guided by the Holy Spirit, taught that in order for one to be saved it is necessary that one... BELIEVE, REPENT, CONFESS, BE BAPTIZED, LIVE GODLY," with Scripture to back each one up.

This is where the debate started. Baptism does not save- it is just a symbol (although it should be done in obedience as commanded by Jesus). I was getting the same language from Gary as I was from Kevin about baptism- quoting Acts 2:38: "And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

I also had my question answered from my discussion with Kevin about what it means to "put on the Lord Jesus." According to Gary, when we are baptized into Christ, we have put on Christ.

Gary also told me that he believes there is a church of the Bible- he doesn't believe there are many churches. He also quoted (from KJV or NKJV- I am using the ESV) Matthew 7:21: "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." I asked Gary point blank if baptism was a requirement for salvation, and he said yes. Going back to Acts 2:38, he said that both baptism and repentance are necessary.

Gray didn't bring anything up about communion, but a few weeks ago, Kevin was on my case about my church only practicing communion once a month. He had asked me why we practice communion. I said we do it in remembrance of Him. He said that if we were only practicing it once a month, we were only remembering Him once a month.

He said that Jesus said that "as often as you take and drink this cup, you do this in remembence of me." He told me the disciples came together every first day of the week to break bread. I looked at the Lord's Supper in Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25 and Luke 22:14-23, and Jesus did say to partake in remembrance of Him, but I do not see Jesus making any references to the frequency of it.

Gary also quoted (from KJV or NKJV- I am using the ESV) Mark 16:16: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." I pointed out that the latter part of this verse doesn't say "whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned." Gary said that if you don't believe, then what's the use of getting baptized, and that's why it isn't said.

I am not discounting communion and baptism and that they should be done in obedience, but to make them a requirement of salvation is getting into a works-based salvation. "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

In John 3:3, Jesus said to Nicodemus, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” When one repents of their sins and places their trust in Jesus Christ, He will give you a new heart with new desires to serve Him. This is what it means to be born again. Repent and trust in Jesus, like you would a parachute on a plane that is about to crash.